Winait film scanner problems

A few weeks ago I wrote a post about the Winait 8mm scanner which I purchased with the aim of adding videos to the Found Film site and I followed it up with a post about the problems I’ve had with it. Well, this follow up post about my Winait film scanner problems is a warning to anyone who is considering buying one – before you do, understand the conditions under which you buy it.

The video above shows the fault condition I have with my scanner. After an indeterminate amount of time, sometimes a couple of minutes, sometimes 30 minutes or longer, the unit will crash and freeze leaving the only course of action removing the power and resetting the unit. After this has happened the digital file on the SD card is not saved so any digitizing of the film which has been recorded up to that point is lost.

This sort of fault is not unknown with microprocessor controlled equipment of course and is possibly a firmware issue that could be fixed with a software update. The real issue is how well the supplier deals with the issue and unfortunately, Winait is just about the worse company I’ve had to deal with in this respect.

In order to illustrate that, and so there isn’t a possibility of bias I’ve included the full email communication I’ve had with Winait in the text below. Basically the situation is this:

• If you buy one of these units you have 3 days to test that it is fully working. After 3 days (according to the company) you don’t have the right to return it because you have accepted that it is perfect – bear in mind that communication with the company in China via the Amazon site can take up to two days to be received and returned. My fault didn’t show up on the first 3-inch reel I digitised but did on the second 5-inch reel – by which time the 3 days were over.
• With my particular problem I’ve been told the issue is the SD card I’ve used, the Motor and then the film itself. As I’ve dismissed each of these the company has tried to get me to pay to have the faulty unit returned so they can assess it even though they have a picture of the fault and I’ve offered to send them a video of the failed condition.
• Be aware that once 3 days have passed and you are deemed to have accepted it, any repairs which are not the standard repairs (and to be honest a product which has standard repairs is a bit odd) require the unit to be shipped back to China at your expense to have it repaired. The Winait company see this as an entirely reasonable action – they supply you with a faulty product and you pay up to £70 to return it to them to repair it. Note that cheaper return options are available but they don’t include insurance and I’m not sending £300 worth of scanner around the world without insurance.
• It is down to you as the customer to diagnose the problem and tell them what part needs to be replaced – they don’t seem to know much about the product that they design and sell.
• Further conversations I’ve had with their after sales consultant informs me that it is impossible to update the firmware on the unit so don’t think there will ever be any improvements once you have bought it. (Update: I subsequently discovered that this statement is not correct. If you have a binary copy of the firmware and put it on an SD card the unit will update it’s firmware when you turn it on).
• Winait customer support will try to get out of taking any action by any mechanism they can.

As it stands I am going to see if I can get Amazon UK to deal with this. They have an A to Z guarantee which may cover this situation but I don’t yet know until I file a claim.

I would warn anyone who is thinking about getting a machine to consider very carefully this situation.

Update: The conversation thread which follows was updated Dec 2017 to reflect the current (sorry) state of this repair. I took delivery of the unit in September 2017 and I am still waiting to get suitable replacements to fix it. At every step of the way I have to try to persuade Winait to send the parts required to repair the unit while they try to avoid any responsibility or want me to send the faulty unit back at my expense for them to investigate.

At this point I don’t even believe sending the unit back would actually help because I don’t think they would actually run the unit long enough to see the fault.

Latest: 25 Dec 2017

I discovered on Christmas Day that Amazon have found in my favour for an A-Z guarantee claim I made on this scanner and are refunding the full price. Obviously I’m really pleased about that but I think it emphasises the poor customer support and sale conditions that the unit was sold under by Winait.

It’s obvious in the UK that nobody should have to pay to return a faulty unit to China to have it repaired and it seems the manufacturer should have followed one of three conditions to sell their good with Amazon:

1. Provide a UK return address or
2. Provide a postage paid return sticker with the unit or
3. Accept that they will refund without the unit being returned

In my dealings with Winait (as shown in the conversation below) they were not aware or interested in this option and in fact the last message I received from Customer Support basically said that as far as they were concerned the buyer understood that if the unit went wrong they would have to pay to have it returned before they bought it and therefore the customer accepted that condition.

Again – I would very strongly recommend to anyone in the UK that they avoid this product.

Conversation with Winait

Me

Hi I received this unit yesterday and I’m currently digitising my second roll of film. When I first received the unit I checked the firmware issue and found it was dated March 2017. I’ve just found the unit had crashed and wouldn’t respond to any button press although the film was still running through the machine – I wonder if there is a newer version of firmware I should upgrade the machine to? Thank You Simon Hawketts

Response

hi Simon Hawketts Good day for the software by now only one edition, for the update of software will be by the end of year. this is the newest edition for hardware if have problem, pls let me known details or you can take a short video to show me thanks Regards Richard

Me

Hi Richard Thank you for your message regarding firmare. The unit I received is faulty in the following way. It starts recording a film with no problem, but at some point in the process the screen freezes and stops showing an update of the pictures being taken. Sometimes the screen has lines on and sometimes it is just blank. The reels are continuing to turn but the machine has crashed. I can turn it off by holding the on/off key, but when I turn it on again the recording is not on the card. I’ve tried different SD cards and I’ve tried the ‘Defaults’ option in the menu to restore factory default settings but it still fails. Could you advise how you can either send me a replacement or a repair option?

Response

hi Simon Hawketts Good day, according to your description 1. when the screen have line, that is the problem of sd card can not compatibility with machine well 2. for the sd card had better use brand one , and at least C6 degree card 3. first time put the sd card in machine, pls format it first before you use it 4. if still have problem, pls show me a short video when it have problem , so we can known more about the problem thanks Regards Richard

Me

Hello Richard To give you more details of my failure. As I said in my original message I’ve tried different types of SD card and I also formatted them in the scanner. Just to make sure I used another, different SD card today and again the unit crashes after about 20 minutes. I have a movie showing the crash but the Amazon site won’t let me upload it, if you can give me an email address I can send it to I will do that. I have been able to add a picture of the screen when the scanner is in its crashed state. All the cards I’ve used have been class 10 SD cards, 1 by Transcend, 1 by Ultima and 1 by Toshiba. Thanks Simon

Response

hi Simon Good day, thanks for your message i will send to technicina and let you known as soon as possible Regards Richard

Me

Hi Richard Thanks for your message. It may help to know that if I set the machine up with a 5-inch reel and then every 5 minutes stop the recording and restart it, the whole film will be digitised, producing lots of small files rather than one large file. This suggests that possibly the problem is to do with the machine not writing the output file and suffering from a memory corruption? Please let me know in the next couple of days if I should reject the unit via Amazon and order a replacement. Simon

Me

Hi, Richard, I’ve had this unit a week now with the fault I told you about. Could you tell me if you are organising a replacement to be shipped to me? Thank You Simon

Response

Dear Simon Good day for the problem acording to your description , it is the sd card problem if still can not work, we can change it for you pls send back to this address Receiver： Gao jin Address: Room A806 qiche building,zhenhua road, futian distrcit, shenzhen china zip code: 518031 phone number :+86-15817334515 pls send by post mail, which is cheap and no customs fess Regards Richard

Me

Hello Richard Could you please give me a link to an SD card which will work? I have tried multiple different types and the fault shows up with every type I have tried so I would like you to show me a card which is guaranteed to work.

At this point, after a few days, I tried to return the unit via the amazon returns option on the order but the return was rejected by Winait.

Me

I have just discovered that you have rejected my return of this faulty item. I want to know the reason for this rejection since the unit is 14 days old and faulty. I also want to point out that when it is returned I expect you to pay for the postage so could you please arrange that.

Response

hi for the return only 3days after receive it. but still in warranty free repair. and you pay ship to us. we pay ship back to you and we can help you update the scanner too

Me

That is totally unacceptable. You have supplied me with a faulty device and I told you it was faulty weeks ago. We have been in communication for the last two weeks so you can’t claim you didn’t know that it was faulty. Also, I should not have to pay to return a faulty unit

If you want, in order to save the cost of shipping the unit back, you can send me the parts to repair the unit and I will carry out the repair.

Response

for the return policy is set by company，if it is machine，i can apply it for you for the shipping cost。but need to check by technician first。 you can send back by post mail first，anyway need to check the problem first，and to make it good working。

Me

I have checked and in order to send this back to China with insurance coverage, it will cost me between £40 and £70 which is close to 20% of the cost I paid to buy the unit. I am therefore going to see if I can raise this issue with Amazon UK because it is simply not acceptable to ask a customer to pay this amount of money to return a faulty unit. 

Response

that is ok send accessories to you， pls check which part need to change

Me

I assume you mean you can send parts to fix the scanner? If that is the case I don’t know which parts are required but since the unit crashes after a few minutes scanning I would assume it is something related to the microprocessor & memory so I would assume the main PCB needs to be replaced. Can you send a new main board? 

Response

let me check with technician which part have problem，normal is the motor have problem，now we updated it. after check i will let you known later today or 

A few days later

hi, have you send video for the problem to me 
i can not find it , can you send your email to me i check it 

Followed by

hi Simon 
Good day, i got you it , there are nearly 1000 emails after back holiday 
just find it today, i had send to technician to check what is the problem,and which part need to change 
then i send accessories

Regards
RIchard

Then

hi Simon
Good day
sorry later reply
technician said , it is the problem of the motor
i can sen a updated metal motor to you 
pls check the attachment the part that for change , pls confirm it too 

Regards
Richard

Me

I don’t think the motor is the faulty part. 
The unit will carry on running after the software crash – I can’t think of any way the motor could be the problem – are you sure you asked him about the correct set of fault conditions?
On my machine, the software will crash after a small amount of time which stops the data being written to the SD card. It doesn’t mechanically fail – the film keeps turning everything else is running but the software has crashed. Could you re-check this, please?
thanks

Response

so do you mean it is the software problem, let me check with eginner whether can refresh software

Me

The problem is that the machine crashes during use – I need whichever component is causing the crash. I suspect it is probably the main pcb with the microprocessor on, but I’m pretty sure it isn’t the motor and it isn’t a question of replacing the software. 

I can send you a video of it failing if you send me an email address I can send video to. The Amazon system doesn’t let me attach videos. so I will need an email address outside this system.

Response

hi, checked with technicina again 
he said from the vidoe it is the problem of film
now two way to test it
1. pls check film you put in right way 
2. change another film to check again 
3. or put nothing on it, to check whether it can running 

Me

The problem is not the film – I’ve tried multiple different films and the unit crashes but just to confirm I tried another film this afternoon and again the unit crashes. 

So far you have suggested the problem is the SD card, the motor and now the film and it isn’t any of those.
I think you need to send me a new unit and organise to have this one shipped back to you because it doesn’t work and I can’t use it.

Response

hi, because by now we had never meet this problem, normal it is the motor problem or sd card problem. so pls send back to us to this address, we need to check first about the real problem 
Company: WINAIT TECHNOLOGIES LIMITED
Receiver： Gao jin
Address: Room A806 qiche building,zhenhua road, futian distrcit, shenzhen china
zip code: 518031
phone number :+86-15817334515

Me

I will send it back if you will reimburse the cost of shipping – I am not going to pay to return a faulty unit because I shouldn’t be out of pocket because you have supplied faulty goods.
I also asked if you could send me an email address so I could send a video of the fault condition because I believe you have only seen a picture. 

Response

hi, according to the detials that you send before, that is only can known the possible reasons,
but you said still can not solve it.
we had never meet this problem, so only can send back for repair ( now it only in warranty of free repair , you pay send back, we change and repair for you and then we pay send back to you )

it will not have big problem, normal is the accessoires problem, change it , it will be ok
you can send video to my mail: [e-mail address removed]

Me

You don’t seem to understand. I should not have to pay to return an item which is faulty – especially since the cost of sending it back, with insurance, is about 1/3 of the cost I paid to purchase it. If you are not prepared to send a new unit or pay for the return of this unit I will take this up with Amazon in the UK so they can sort it out. I will also add a review of the unit to the Amazon review system and point out to anyone considering purchasing this unit that if it is faulty they must be prepared to spend another £40 – £80 returning it to you so you can repair it.

Response

hi, the warranty only for repair free for one year.
now we ask you send back, and free repair for you, and update it for you to new generation.and we pay the cost send to you,
just ask you to pay for shipping cost that send to us. that is reasonable
(you can pay by post mail cheap shipping way)

Me

You are simply not getting it – it is not reasonable to ask to pay to return an item which you supplied which is faulty. This hasn’t gone faulty after use, it was supplied by you as faulty. I will raise this with Amazon and add my review – you are not being reasonable

Response

if as you said not reasonable one need to pay 40-80 cost for shipping,let ‘s say 60 ok total cost only 300 amazon will deduct 9%, UK govement will deduct 17%.

we ship to you had cost 30 so only 192 left, do you think we can have 10% profit,  there is no reasonable in fact, even amozon and UK govement earn much more than our profit the warranty is for 1 year, if you can repair, we can send acccessoires to you (that is better for both of us) if you cannot repair, we can repair for you , but you need to send back and pay for the shipping cost, ( if in this way, for this order we total will be in loss, because to change the accesories cost and worker cost and shipping to you again cost, the total cost will much more than our profit) , do you think this is reasonable for us? to sell and in loss!!!

Me

The point you seem to have missed from your calculation is that you have supplied faulty equipment. What you are arguing is that you should make a profit selling faulty goods so no, I don’t think that is reasonable at all. In the UK a manufacturer is required by law to supply goods which are fit for purpose – in this case, your scanner is not fit for purpose. If you supply a unit that doesn’t work I think it is entirely reasonable that you make a loss on that unit – I certainly don’t think I, as the customer, should pay more money to repair the unit to make sure you make a profit!

You have stated that you can send out a replacement part to repair the unit – I’ve said that I am willing to replace the main board if you want to send one but you seem reluctant to do that. It’s true that I don’t know the problem is the main board, but it seems more likely than the motor which is your best guess. 

Response

not to find excuse, just to let you known the process

now it is in warranty for repair

1. we send accessories you repair yourself

2. you send back ,we repair for you 

that is up to you in which way to solve it

Me

I am happy to carry out the repairs if you send me the parts which need to be replaced.

Response

so can you sure it is the pcb have problem

i do not known whether you can change it or not too for the pcb

i will check with our enginner

Me

I obviously can’t be sure it is the PCB since I didn’t design the product but it seems most likely. If you can’t send me one I’ll reject the scanner under Amazon’s A to Z guarantee and they can sort it out with you – to be honest, I’m getting fed up having to diagnose the fault and then bouncing emails back and forth between us.

Response

1. eveything is do in process

2. i had told you clearly, 

if you can repair it, we can send accessories to you 

if you can not repair it, you need send back ,we can repair for you 

Me

I’m afraid I don’t understand your message.

Are you sending me the parts to repair the scanner?

Response

yes, if you need the parts, we can send to you 

but you need to make sure need pcb or motor

Me

To the best of my knowledge, I believe replacement of the main PCB which includes the microprocessor will probably fix the unit. Just to be clear, I have not dismantled the unit so this is my best guess.

Response

if you think the main board problem i arrange send one new main board to you to change it 

Me

Yes please – I hope that will fix the problem.

Response

yes, it will have too big problem, because we have sold more than 10000 pcs all over the world, yes it have small problem, we known it and update it later i send tracking number to you for the main board

Response

(Images of new PCB included)

hi, good day, i had arranged a tested main board to you 

later i send trakcing number to you 

Me (a few weeks later)

Hi 

Could you tell me if you have sent the PCB? you were going to let me know the tracking number

Thanks

Response

hi, good day, PCB had been send out, the tracking number is xxxxxxxxxx

Me

Hi 

I have received the new PCB and fitted it to the scanner.

Unfortunately, this board does not work because the take up spool motor does not run and the text on the LCD is expanded beyond the limits of the screen. I did find, however, that the software version fitted to this board is very old – early 2016, so I wonder if the software is incompatible with the rest of the unit?

Could you send me the latest firmware so I can update the board to see if that fixes the problems with this board and then I can see if it fixes the original problem

Response

hi Mr Simon P Hawketts 

Good day

for the software by now no update , all are version 1.0 the update only for the hardware.

i said it should be the problem of motor last time, but your insit it is the main board problem.

pls take the motor out, and test whether it work or not if the motor not work, need to change it 

Me

hi

The problem with the motor is only with the new pcb fitted to the scanner but the new PCB you supplied is installed with old software so I am asking if you can supply me with the latest software so I can update the new pcb to see if it works.

Without trying to be disrespectful could you please see if someone who understands English could read through the message I sent

Thanks

Response

hi Mr Simon P Hawketts 

good day

1. i had told you , the software only 1 edition

2. even we send the software files, you can not update your self, for this device is complex to refresh software

bot the pcb and software by now only 1 edition

3. i had told you from the beginning, it is the motor problem, we have sold more than 20000pcs, so according to what your description of the problem, we can make sure 90% about the problem.

say again, for the software only 1 edition

Me

OK – there is only one edition of the software.

In that case I don’t understand how you could send me a board with a different edition, but that is what you have done since the PCB you sent as a replacement has a different version of software than the version fitted to the scanner originally.

The motor works with the PCB originally fitted but not with the replacement board. The original fault is not with the motor because the motor works with the original PCB. 

Please ask someone who understands english to read this message thread

I have about 3 weeks left to reject this unit via Amazon UK so either send another PCB or that is what I will do – I’m fed up trying to make myself understood.

Response

HI hi Mr Simon P Hawketts 

SAY AGAIN, FOR THE SOFTWARE AND MAIN BOARD ARE BOTH ONLY ONE EDITION FROM BEN BEGINNING TO NOW.

the only change is only the hardware, we first update add fan, second update is the motor

are you clear now!

you do not have the ability to check the problem , pls send back for checking the reason 

the send back address is :

(send both the scanner and the board that i send to you , we will check the problem and repair for you )

Receiver： Gao jin

Address: Room A806 qiche building,zhenhua road, futian distrcit, shenzhen china

zip code: 518031

phone number :+86-15817334515

Me

Hi 

I have taken pictures of the scanner with the new PCB fitted which are shown below as files winait-software-1, 2 and 3. This shows the menu is expanded and the software version starts 201607… I can’t see the whole date because the menu is expanded.

I have also taken a picture of the machine with the original PCB re-fitted which is shown as well with the file name original-pcb-1. This shows the software version of the original PCB which is 20170310-DN08-EN.

This seems to show that either there is a different version of the software fitted or you have sent the wrong PCB.

As i said in my email of a few days ago the motor works with the original PCB re-fitted to the scanner.

Will you please get someone who understands english to read this message thread and organise to send be a new, correct PCB or preferably a new scanner.

Regards

Response

this is production date, not software version

Me

Fine – you store the production date in the menu option called version.

The point is the new board doesn’t work with the machine. The menu doesn’t fit the screen, has different menu options and the motor doesn’t work when it is fitted. You said you sent a fully tested board but the fact that the production date is 2016 tells me you tried to send an old board rather than one from your current production.

Therefore you now need to send one that does work so I can see if it fixes the original fault.

Response

the pcb have no problem, it had been tested before shipping

Me

Well it doesn’t work in this scanner. Are you going to send another PCB or do I reject the unit via the Amazon site ?

Response

1th the scanner had pass return time
2th it is in warranty time, we can repair for you 
3th, i had send a new mainboard to change it , and it is only one edition of the mainboard ( it is the heart of scanner, not a simple pcb board)
4th, you do not have the ability to change it , which cause the problem, 
so now you can send back scanner with the pcb board , we solve the problem for you 

Me

I’m afraid you are mistaken.

I shall reject the unit via the Amazon A-Z guarantee. It seems you are actually supposed, as an international marketplace supplier to Amazon, to provide either a UK return address, a pre-paid return sticker or be prepared to refund without a return. This is in the amazon terms and conditions for International marketplace suppliers so you should not have asked me to pay for the return, and if you had accepted that from the start this issue would have been resolved. I will leave it to Amazon to determine why you don’t offer the conditions you are supposed to and why you tried to make me pay for the return. 

I shall complete the appropriate Amazon product review to ensure anyone else who purchases this produce is aware of the conditions they purchase it under

Response

we had marked the return policy on order
if you buy mean you had agree with it
now it is in warranty for repair, you do not want send back to repair
you ask us send your a new main board,we had send to you , isnot it?
we had sold many pcs to UK, but never meet problem like you. 
everyone who meet problem, and let us known detail, we can help them to solve it easyly.
only you do not accept our judgement,you insist mainiboard have problem, a mainboard is the heart of scanner, it is not cheap cost, we still send a new one to you with charger any fees, even shipping cost. but you say it have problem too. now we 100% sure not main board problem. your judgement is wrong.
because before shipping , we had test it .

At this point I filed an A-Z guarantee claim with Amazon because I concluded that Winait were never going to repair the unit and if I didn’t file a claim within 3 months of purchase I would never get my money back.